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The New Space Race:China vs United States

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posted on Jul, 3 2008 @ 09:20 PM
I found this interesting article today and after reading,I have to say that there truly is a new "Space Race" that is now getting out of it's 'embryonic' stages.I know Internos made a fine thread about the upcoming global missions to the Moon,but I have singled out the two main players and the reason for the sudden 'Lunar' surge:

Earlier this year, shortly after Russia claimed a vast portion of the Arctic sea floor, accelerating an international race for the natural resources as global warming opens polar access, China has announced plans to map "every inch" of the surface of the Moon and exploit the vast quantities of Helium-3 thought to lie buried in lunar rocks as part of its ambitious space-exploration program.
Ouyang Ziyuan, head of the first phase of lunar exploration, was quoted on government-sanctioned news site describing plans to collect three dimensional images of the Moon for future mining of Helium 3: "There are altogether 15 tons of helium-3 on Earth, while on the Moon, the total amount of Helium-3 can reach one to five million tons."
"Helium-3 is considered as a long-term, stable, safe, clean and cheap material for human beings to get nuclear energy through controllable nuclear fusion experiments," Ziyuan added. "If we human beings can finally use such energy material to generate electricity, then China might need 10 tons of helium-3 every year and in the world, about 100 tons of helium-3 will be needed every year."

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.

And with this excerpt of this interview it seems the race is on:(The following is the transcript of the MSNBC show "The Situation with Tucker Carlson)Video Link

CARLSON: Still to come, aliens of a different sort. Are extraterrestrials among us now? And is the White House trying to start a war with them? Why a former government official says, “Oh, yes. It‘s all true.” When the situation returns.
CARLSON: Welcome back. According to my next guest, the truth is out there. Actually up there, with our neighbor to the north, Canada.
A former Canadian government official is warning we may be on the verge of intergalactic war, saying, quote, “The Bush administration has finally agreed to let the military build a forward base on the moon, which will put them in a better position to keep track of the comings and goings of visitors from space and to shoot at them if they so decide,” end quote.
Paul Hellyer is a former minister of defense and deputy prime minister of the country of Canada. He joins us now from Toronto. Mr. Hellyer, thanks a lot for coming on.
CANADA: Not at all, it‘s a pleasure.
CARLSON: Now, you were the minister of defense of Canada. When you autopsied that position, I believe, under Prime Minister Lester Pearson, did you come across any classified information that suggested UFO‘s were real?
HELLYER: No, not really. We got regular reports that showed that some of them were, in fact, unidentified. Some of the sightings could not be explained as natural phenomenon, but nothing more than that.
CARLSON: Well, as you know, there‘s been this debate for years over whether or not they are real. Most people don‘t think they are real, or most people at least are hesitant to say they believe they are real in public. What convinced you they do, in fact, exist?
HELLYER: Well, for the last two or three years, I have been looking at the evidence, and assessing it, much as I guess a judge would. And trying to determine who was telling the truth and who wasn‘t. And I finally concluded, especially after reading a book called “The Day After Roswell,” written by Colonel Philip Corso, that unidentified flying objects are, in fact real. As real as the airplanes flying over your head, and that there has been a monumental cover-up for more than half a century.
This is after, you know, looking at a lot of evidence and trying to discern who was telling the truth and who wasn‘t. And I have concluded unequivocally that the people, who claim that they have either seen UFO‘s or have seen classified documents about UFO‘s or have seen wreckage from the crash at Roswell, on or about July 4, 1947, are the ones telling the truth. And consequently, I am basing my policy considerations on that.
CARLSON: Where did you come across this information that the Bush administration is building a forward base on the moon, and why would they do that? And why would they keep it from the public?
HELLYER: Well, to answer your second question first, I don‘t know.
That is the reason I am raising the question, is to see why they are.
CARLSON: Well how do you—how do you—that‘s an awfully specific claim. I haven‘t read it in the “New York Times.” Doesn‘t mean it‘s not true, doesn‘t mean you‘re wrong, but I am interested to know why you think that.
HELLYER: Well, because this was forecasted in Colonel Corso‘s book. They were wanting to build a base on the moon, as far back as 1964. And General Arthur Trudeau (ph) -- same name as one of my bosses—was very determined to build a forward base on the moon. And prepared all of the specifications necessary for it, and the blueprints, and so on.
CARLSON: Well, is it—pardon me. I don‘t mean to interrupt you, but doesn‘t this make sense? I mean, if, in fact, there are extraterrestrials and they are buzzing our planet, why wouldn‘t we want to take steps to defend ourselves from them should they turn hostile?
HELLYER: Well, I think the critical question is whether or not they are hostile. You see, when they were first—when the crash first occurred, General Nathan Twining (ph) later became the...
CARLSON: In Roswell?
HELLYER: Yes, after that crash occurred, he declared that they were enemy aliens. Now, there‘s no evidence, that I have seen, that would really convince me that they are, in fact, you know enemy.
And what I would like to know is whether that classification of enemy aliens still exists or whether it doesn‘t, and if it exists, what the evidence is on which the United States government bases its conclusions. I think that‘s tremendously important.
CARLSON: I think that‘s an entirely fair question. Now, finally, you laid out these views in September of this year at a speech at the University of Toronto, and according to the news report I have of the speech, your address, quote, “ended with a standing ovation.”
And that implies, I think, that your views are commonplace in Canada. They are a minority view here, distinct minority view. Do you think most Canadians believe that there is a forward base under construction on the Moon and that aliens are buzzing the earth?
HELLYER: No, absolutely not. Most of them are skeptics. Most of them haven‘t spent much time researching the subject, and so they‘re, I think, the average here would be very similar to the average American. And I am hoping that, maybe, we can persuade the Canadian Senate to hold hearings and listen to some of the 400 witnesses that your Dr. Steven—what‘s his name? Oh, Greer, Dr. Steven Greer, has compiled, and hear them, and, you know, make up their minds as to whether or not there is a real threat.
CARLSON: All right.
HELLYER: And, maybe, this would be just enough to push the American government, the U.S. Congress or Senate, into holding its own hearings, and then getting the United States government finally to come clean and tell us what they are worried about.
CARLSON: OK. Canada‘s former minister of defense, Paul Hellyer. If you are right, history will record you as a visionary. If you are wrong, well, I‘m glad you came on anyway. Thank you.
HELLYER: It‘s a pleasure.

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.
WOW,mainstream media(now FOX.CNN,and MSNBC) have been covering UFO's a lot lately!Back on topic I think this "Alien Defense Base"may just be the cover for a mining base or military base for space superiority(has that word ever been used before?).
Fuel;What all the race is about:

Helium 3 fusion energy - classic Buck Rogers propulsion system- may be the key to future space exploration and settlement, requiring less radioactive shielding, lightening the load. Scientists estimate there are about one million tons of helium 3 on the moon, enough to power the world for thousands of years. The equivalent of a single space shuttle load or roughly 25 tons could supply the entire United States' energy needs for a year.
Thermonuclear reactors capable of processing Helium-3 would have to be built, along with major transport system to get various equipment to the Moon to process huge amounts of lunar soil and get the minerals back to Earth.

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.

Enough cheap,clean,and more efficient fuel for thousands of years??!

Researchers and space enthusiasts see helium 3 as the perfect fuel source: extremely potent, nonpolluting, with virtually no radioactive by-product. Proponents claim its the fuel of the 21st century. The trouble is, hardly any of it is found on Earth.But there is plenty of it on the moon.
Society is straining to keep pace with energy demands, expected to increase eightfold by 2050 as the world population swells toward 12 billion. The moon just may be the answer.
"Helium 3 fusion energy may be thekey to future space exploration and settlement," said Gerald Kulcinski,Director of the Fusion Technology Institute (FTI) at the University of Wisconsin at Madison.
Scientists estimate there are about1 million tons of helium 3 on the moon, enough to power the world for thousands of years. The equivalent of a single space shuttle load or roughly 25 tons could supply the entire United States' energy needs for a year, according to Apollo17 astronaut and FTI researcher Harrison Schmitt.....

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.

[edit on 7/3/2008 by jkrog08]

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[edit on 4-7-2008 by Jbird]

posted on Jul, 3 2008 @ 09:23 PM
Part 2:

Cash crop of the moon:
When the solar wind, the rapid stream of charged particles emitted by the sun, strikes the moon, helium 3 is deposited in the powdery soil. Over billions of years that adds up. Meteorite bombardment disperses the particles throughout the top several meters of the lunar surface.

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.
So now we can see that like on Earth,advancement is motivated by one thing;MONEY,and now the two competing world powers(China and the US) are racing to get there first!
Some recent developments pertaining to Lunar exploration:

With China's announcement, a new Moon-focused Space Race seems locked in place. China made its first steps in space just a few years ago, and is in the process of establishing a lunar base by 2024. NASA is currently working on a new space vehicle, Orion, which is destined to fly the U.S. astronauts to the moon in 13 years, to deploy a permanent base.
Russia, the first to put a probe on the moon, plans to deploy a lunar base in 2015. A new, reusable spacecraft, called Kliper, has been earmarked for lunar flights, with the International Space Station being an essential galactic pit stop.

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.
The USA's Lunar return plan:

More than a century after they were written, Victor Hugo's words apply to today's dreams of advanced human space travel. What once was only a dream that envisioned a new spaceship that would fly astronauts back to the moon and beyond is now taking small steps toward reality as NASA's Constellation Program takes shape.

Small-scale models of the new Crew Exploration Vehicle (CEV) capsule and its tall rocket -- the Crew Launch Vehicle (CLV) -- are being tested in NASA wind tunnels across the nation at NASA Marshall Space Flight Center, Huntsville, Ala., NASA Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, Calif., and NASA Langley Research Center, Hampton, Va.

The tests are supporting the initial development of NASA's new spaceship, its hardware and software. Wind tunnels use giant fans or high-pressure airflow to create wind to flow over vehicles, engines, rockets or scale models, to simulate flight performance. Researchers use such wind tunnel 'flights' to assess new geometric configurations before incorporating them into space vehicle designs.

Windtunnel test of Ares launch vehicle:

NASA's Ares rockets, named for the Greek god associated with Mars, will return humans to the moon and later take them to Mars and other destinations.

Future astronauts will ride to orbit on Ares I, which uses a single five-segment solid rocket booster, a derivative of the space shuttle's solid rocket booster, for the first stage. A liquid oxygen/liquid hydrogen J-2X engine derived from the J-2 engine used on Apollo's second stage will power the crew exploration vehicle's second stage. The Ares I can lift more than 55,000 pounds to low Earth orbit.

Planning and early design are under way for hardware, propulsion systems and associated technologies for NASA's Ares V cargo launch vehicle -- the "heavy lifter" of America’s next-generation space fleet. Ares V will serve as NASA's primary vessel for safe, reliable delivery of large-scale hardware to space -- from the lunar landing craft and materials for establishing a moon base, to food, fresh water and other staples needed to extend a human presence beyond Earth orbit.
Project Constellation launch vehicles Ares and Ares V:

The Orion CEV(Crew Exploration Vehicle):

America will send a new generation of explorers to the moon aboard NASA’s Orion crew exploration vehicle. Making its first flights early in the next decade, Orion is part of the Constellation Program to send human explorers back to the moon, and then onward to Mars and other destinations in the solar system. A component of the Vision for Space Exploration, Orion’s development is taking place in parallel with missions to complete the International Space Station using the space shuttle before the shuttle is retired in 2010.

Orion will be capable of carrying crew and cargo to the space station. It will be able to rendezvous with a lunar landing module and an Earth departure stage in low-Earth orbit to carry crews to the moon and, one day, to Mars-bound vehicles assembled in low-Earth orbit. Orion will be the Earth entry vehicle for lunar and Mars returns. Orion’s design will borrow its shape from the capsules of the past, but takes advantage of 21st century technology in computers, electronics, life support, propulsion and heat protection systems.

Lockheed Martin Corp was awarded the contract to build Orion on Aug. 31, 2006.
China's Lunar Program:These Chinese have Joined the US and Russia as the only countries to develop technology to send a man in space,as well one of the only three to launch a satellite around the Moon.

Chinese Lunar Exploration Program (CLEP) (Chinese: ; pinyin: Zhōngguó Tànyuè) is a program of robotic explorations and human missions to the Moon undertaken by China National Space Administration (CNSA), People's Republic of China's space agency. It uses Chang'e lunar orbiters, rovers and soil return spacecraft and adapted Long March 3A launch vehicle. The launch and the flight are monitored constantly by a TT&C System (Deep Space Tracking Network, with radio antennas of 50 m in Beijing, 40 m in Kunming, Shanghai and Ürümqi, forming a 3000 km VLBI antenna.[1][2]) and the Ground Application System, responsible for downlink data reception.
The first spacecraft of the program, Chang'e 1, an un-manned lunar orbiter was successfully launched at Xichang Satellite Launch Center on October 24, 2007[3] (delayed from 17–19 April 2007[4]) with further launches planned for 2008 or 2009 according to academician and chief designer Long Lehao.[5]
Ouyang Ziyuan, one of the most prominent Chinese experts in geological research on underground nuclear testing and extraterrestrial materials, was the first to advocate not only the exploitation of the known huge lunar reserves of metals such as iron, but also the mining of lunar helium-3 as an ideal fuel for nuclear fusion power plants. He is now in charge of the Chang'e program. He is known to be one of the strongest supporters of the Chinese human lunar exploration program.
Space agencies logo:

Orbiting (Chang’e 1 in 2007)
Main article: Chang'e 1
Chang'e 1 is a lunar orbiting spacecraft. According to the schedule, detailed program design of the first milestone was completed by September 2004. Research and development of a prototype probe and relevant testing of the probe was finished before the end of 2005. Design, manufacture, general assembly, test and ground experiments of the lunar orbiter was finished before December 2006. On October 24, 2007 the Chang'e 1 was launched.
(Already launched Chinese Lunar satellite)

Landing (Chang’e 2 in 2009)
A spacecraft (Chang’e 2) will be launched to deploy a lunar lander for surface exploration in a limited area on the moon.
It is said that the second phase of the program would include the launch of at least two landers in 2008 or 2009,[6][7] that will carry small remote-controlled Moon rovers to conduct an inspection of the moon's surface and probe the moon's resources. It would also provide data to determine the selection of a moon base.
On December 14, 2005, many aspects of the above information were confirmed, when it was reported "an effort to launch lunar orbiting satellites will be supplanted in 2007 by a program aimed at accomplishing an unmanned lunar landing. A program to return unmanned space vehicles from the moon will begin in 2012 and last for five years, until the manned program gets underway" in 2017.[8]
A six-wheeled lunar vehicle due to be launched in 2013 has been under development since 2002 at the Shanghai Aerospace System Engineering Institute where a specialized testing laboratory has been outfitted to replicate the lunar surface. [9][10] The 1.5-meter high, 200-kilogram rover is designed to transmit video in real time, dig and analyze soil samples. In photographs, the rover appeared similar to NASA's unmanned Spirit and Opportunity Mars rovers. Unlike the rechargeable lithium ion batteries used by those rovers, the Chinese model will eventually run on a nuclear power source to ensure a constant energy supply. With an average speed of 100 meters/hour, it can negotiate inclines and has automatic sensors to prevent it from crashing into other objects.
Rival rovers are being developed by similar institutes in Beijing and elsewhere.
Chinese Long March Rocket to be used for manned Lunar missions:

Returning (Chang’e 3 in 2017)
On the basis of the lander mission, a lunar sample return mission (Chang’e 3) will be implemented. On the same date the manned program is expected to start.....

[edit on 7/3/2008 by jkrog08]

[edit on 7/3/2008 by jkrog08]

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[edit on 4-7-2008 by Jbird]

posted on Jul, 3 2008 @ 09:26 PM
Part 3:

Returning (Chang’e 3 in 2017)
On the basis of the lander mission, a lunar sample return mission (Chang’e 3) will be implemented. On the same date the manned program is expected to start.[11]

Future development
Currently, the second and third phases of the program are being planned. Both will require the availability of the heavy-lift Long March 5 (CZ-5) booster. Huang Chunping, the former head of rocket science at China's manned space program, told Xinhua news agency in March 2007 that the Long March 5 (CZ-5) rocket would be ready for launch 'in seven or eight years', which implied that CZ-5 would not be used in the second phase of the Chang'e program. It has been reported that the second phase might use a CZ-3B rocket instead. Nonetheless, the decision to develop a totally new moon rocket able to launch a 500 tons payload has been discussed in a 2006 conference by academician Zhang Guitian (张贵田), a liquid propellant rocket engine specialist, who developed the CZ-2 and CZ-4A rockets engines.[12][13]

Human missions
It is highly expected that the fourth human space flight phase will start with a Circumlunar Shenzhou flight, since the Shenzhou spacecraft has been designed with a lunar return capable aerodynamics, as demonstrated by the similar Soyuz spacecraft during the L1 manned lunar program of the 1960s.[14]
The Hainan Spaceport, fourth and southernmost space center, will be upgraded to suit the new CZ-5 Heavy ELV and human lunar missions.
On occasion of the 2008 May Day celebration, a Lunar Roving Vehicle was shown on a Chinese TV channel.

Russian cooperation
Anatoly Perminov, head of the Russian Federal Space Agency revealed in September 2006 in RIA Novosti that the two countries were indeed working on the Moon as partners, and that the Russian-Chinese space sub-commission's priority was to conclude a joint Moon exploration agreement by the end of that year.[15]

The Shenzhou spacecraft and its support systems are obviously designed for more than that, and to carry out specific complex missions. It’s clear that future missions will carry three crewmen, fly for extended periods, support testing of spacewalks and orbital dockings, carry specialized science and technological equipment, and move toward deployment of a Chinese space station similar to Russia’s venerable Mir (1986-2001).
We suspect this, because Chinese officials in more serious moments and properly translated interviews have said as much. But we can also believe it, because they have built the Shenzhou hardware with features that make sense only when used for exactly those missions.
Chinese Shenzhou space station:
This recent surge in Chinese space technology may surprise some people,but as they are the US's 'economic rival' so to speak on Earth,it only makes sense they would take it to space if exploitable.The 'new space race' has definitely begun in my opinion.
Helium 3 as fuel when?:

The harvesting of Helium-3 on the could start by 2025. Our lunar mining could be but a jumping off point for Helium 3 extraction from the atmospheres of our Solar System gas giants, Saturn and Jupiter.
UN Treaties in place state that the moon and its minerals are the common heritage of mankind, so the quest to use Helium-3 as an energy source would likely demand joint international co-operation. Hopefully, exploitation of the moon's resources will be viewed as a solution for the world, rather than an out-moded nation-state solution.

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.

We are really moving ahead here as far as space advancement if by 2025 we have operational mining colonies on the Moon.Did you read where else they plan to exploit;Atmospheres of Saturn and Jupiter!

How global will this energy revolution be?:

In October 2003, China became the third space-faring nation (after the U.S. and Russia) after it launched its first “Taikonaut” into orbit.
Europe and India are accelerating their efforts to conduct robotic science on space-born platforms. There’s also a growing interest in space exploration from a dozen other countries around the world, including Kenya, whose equatorial location on the east coast of Africa makes it geographically ideal for space launches.
While this emerging international community claims it's slice of the aerospace universe, the U.S., by contrast, is no longer a leader but simply a player, according to nationally renowned astrophysicist Neil deGrasse Tyson, who points out that "we’ve moved backward just by standing still."
Posted by Casey Kazan.

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.
Sounds pretty global,will the fuel crisis ultimately unify the world?It seems possible with what was once considered in the realm of "sci-fi" becoming a reality.

My final thoughts:It seems apparent now after reviewing this report that a new 'space race' has begun and will only intensify over the coming years.We are talking about a Moon base by 2015-2017,only 7-9 more years!It is also apparent that the US's former enemy in space exploration,Russia is doing the logical,forseen step in helping America's new 'world rival' China win the 'race to the Moon'.I think in a weird and ironic way that by this competition to get the fuel on the Moon first, the world in a way is coming together for the exploration and the betterment of mandkind(the two go 'hand in hand').World unification for any purpose is the obvious next step in our species evolving and advancing as a species.For whatever reason unification happens it is likely for the best.As for who I think will 'win' this race?The US will likely pull it out in the end,and through various deals a globally unified extra-terrestrial mining and fuel program will occur and evolve.Likely ending up similar to the crude oil market today,which is truly global in reach.Although some think the US is behind right now,I think our dedication to mechanical longevity evens the pace as our experience in space does the same.The obvious reason for this new space race is energy and the promise of an abundance of better energy sources on the Moon and other bodies in our solar system.I think that like the first space race, this next one will help us make a 'quantum leap' forward in our understanding of space,energy,and truly advanced technology.Thanks for reading and what do all here at ATS think?

*ATS Thread

[edit on 7/3/2008 by jkrog08]

posted on Jul, 3 2008 @ 09:32 PM
Good post JKrog.

Keep in mind that a Space race leads to Cold war between two Super Powers. The Space race is just flexing "technological muscle" if you will.

The US, during the Clinton years, gave over our sensitive Space technology to China hand over fist. We even helped them determine their problems with regards to exploding rocket launches.

Of course China is using the techs for military uses as well. From Laser guided munitions and radar jamming to sophisticated data encryption along with C4 Command and Control operations.

In the 1990s, we gave China a huge running start and advanced their space program by at least 10 years.

[edit on 3-7-2008 by jetxnet]

posted on Jul, 3 2008 @ 09:35 PM
Yea I agree,that is one Clinton administration decision that may come back to hurt us.

posted on Jul, 4 2008 @ 12:21 AM
the thing is if the u.s. and china work together along with other countries in the space race, we would have a better shot at getting more things done. It shouldn't be about owning the moon or getting a base there first.

nice post. a lot of good info.

posted on Jul, 4 2008 @ 10:25 AM

Originally posted by declassified
the thing is if the u.s. and china work together along with other countries in the space race, we would have a better shot at getting more things done. It shouldn't be about owning the moon or getting a base there first.

nice post. a lot of good info.

Thanks,I agree.But unfortunately that is not the case,but like I said I think in a way this will become a global affair in the end.

posted on Jul, 5 2008 @ 09:01 AM

Originally posted by jkrog08.

“The Bush administration has finally agreed to let the military build a forward base on the moon, which will put them in a better position to keep track of the comings and goings of visitors from space and to shoot at them if they so decide,” end quote.
Paul Hellyer

WOW,mainstream media(now FOX.CNN,and MSNBC) have been covering UFO's a lot lately!Back on topic I think this "Alien Defense Base"may just be the cover for a mining base or military base for space superiority(has that word ever been used before?).

Firstly, the concept of putting a military base on the Moon for the purpose of using it as an intelligence gathering post against aliens as well as to "shoot at the ETs if they so decide", is beyond bizarre!! What the heck are they talking about? This is utter nonsense! A protective base is established on a known route of ingress or on an attack approach. The Moon is a point somewhere out there in the vast expanse of space, and thus doesen't conform to this principle.

Unless they know from which direction the ETs will attack from!

Secondly, considering an alien threat however far fetched this may be, do we expect to "shoot at them"?? Don't those worthies (like those in the Bush administration) who spew out this nonsense know that we would only get pulverised by technology millions of years ahead of ours?

This is the type of crap that the media laps up for improving their TRP ratings!
You are correct when you mention that building a base on the Moon may just be a cover for a mining base for Helium and other esoteric metals.

Well put together!


[edit on 5-7-2008 by mikesingh]

posted on Jul, 5 2008 @ 11:17 AM
Thanks and yea I agree about the position of the base.It doesn't make any sense to only have one point of defense,so I do think that it is a cover for mining or military.

posted on Jul, 8 2008 @ 02:44 PM
Great Read... a star and a flag

The World should come together to explore new energy sources... and I see lot of countries helping each other in developing the moon missions... I am waiting to see something good coming out from these missions...

[edit on 8-7-2008 by communicator]

posted on Jul, 8 2008 @ 02:47 PM
China can have the Moon. It's not much more than a big, dusty rock. Just let us have easy access to the Siberian oil fields.

[edit on 8-7-2008 by Nohup]

posted on Aug, 2 2009 @ 10:36 PM

Originally posted by jetxnet
Keep in mind that a Space race leads to Cold war between two Super Powers. The Space race is just flexing "technological muscle" if you will.

PPFFTT Space Race?
The whole Cold War with Russia was just a ploy by both sides to 'arm up' It was really just a friendly rivalry...

The same thing with China. Just add this to all what you said we gave them

Buzz Aldrin partner and Senior Scientist for Gravwave LLC A company working with anti gravity and gravity waves with the Chinese. There is a strong rumor that they have the missing Dr Ning Li

See Page 9 of this PDF

But as they say a picture worth a thousand words...

Hmmm Looks a lot like Griffin from NASA

posted on Aug, 2 2009 @ 10:38 PM

Originally posted by Nohup
China can have the Moon. It's not much more than a big, dusty rock. Just let us have easy access to the Siberian oil fields.

Buzz Aldrin - China Moon

posted on Aug, 2 2009 @ 10:42 PM
reply to post by zorgon

LOL....I did not realize how poorly put together this thread was,lol. WOW......A year changes A LOT right? I think some of the BB code is messed up or something, oh well...But on topic, I still think that the race is on, either publically or covertly, b/w the two main opposing powers. That is interesting about Dr. Li...I remember when he went missing. Although now with NASAs current plans and such I am fearful China might win!

Well at least publically,lol.

[edit on 8/2/2009 by jkrog08]

posted on Aug, 2 2009 @ 10:47 PM
There isn't a space race. We currently have our best and brightest in China teaching them how to build a High Frequency Gravitational Wave generator and detector. Dr. Robert Baker, Jr and Buzz Aldrin are the heads of Gravwave, LLC. Dr. Robert Baker is also a "head hunter" for the various DoD scientific programs. He was the one that secured Dr. Ning Li for the ARL after her and Dr. Ron Koczor did their work furthering the concepts of Evgeny Podkletnov.

The Gravwave, LLC Team

Curriculum Vitae of Dr. Baker

We are working hand in hand with the Chinese. It is just another "red flag" like the Col War was.

Edit to add...i was just poking around for updates on the HFGW program in China, and found this link:

That states this:

“Perhaps China is not funding HFGW resarch, or at least the type of HFGW research being promoted by Baker, Davis, and Puthoff. By the way, not all HGFW research is bad science. You should review the work by Ray Chow at the University of California at Merced.”

Does anyone else find it interesting to see Hal Puthoff's name in that list?

[edit on 2-8-2009 by bigfatfurrytexan]

posted on Aug, 2 2009 @ 10:57 PM
This is somewhat off topic...but i hadn't noticed this before. Hal Puthoff is on the GravWave team:

On page 10 of the 17 in the link.

posted on Aug, 2 2009 @ 11:44 PM
DANG How did we miss that before?
Did he not stop by Pegasus group early on? I know he planned to? You have been there more that I have lately

To JKrog08 Dr Ming Li is female Tex has a good thread on the hunt for her

Oh I see now... that is a different paper with a list of invited workshop participants and I also see a Biao Li and a Fangyu Li

Maybe need to bump that other thread

Seems all he good stuff falls off the table around here or buried by crap circles and FUFO's (Fake UFO's "P )

[edit on 2-8-2009 by zorgon]

posted on Aug, 2 2009 @ 11:46 PM
reply to post by zorgon

Yea I have seen that thread.

That is not good LOL, you have not been on YOUR site as much as a member of your site,lol....

posted on Aug, 3 2009 @ 07:36 AM
reply to post by zorgon

I do not know if Hal has dropped by Pegasus or not. I will check the membership log and see if he may have been added.

That is one man i would LOVE to have access to for a few questions.

I saw someone talking in another thread how there currently isn't a scientist that can walk outside the shadow of folks like Copernicus, Einstein, etc....i believe Hal Puthoff to be such a man. Unfortunately, his work with the Gov will likely keep many from knowing just how profound he is.

posted on Aug, 3 2009 @ 08:02 AM
Well, the untied states still holds the heavyweight belt
We have long already sent spacecraft to venus, mercury mars, pioneer and voyager spacecraft to the outer solar system, and have even gone to and come back with samples of comets and asteroids! we put men on the moon!!! the russsians were very close to beaitng us thier, but they were the first to have a spacestation...
china still has a LONG LONG LONG road to go, before the word VS can be used.

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