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Union Busting with John Oliver

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posted on Nov, 19 2021 @ 09:45 AM
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a reply to: putnam6

Yes they have guidelines, but they vote for their own officers. Not sure if they have power to negotiate wages, benefits or other work related issues without input from at least regional offices of a national union.

Now that i think about it, I think there are local independent unions. I don't even know how those work.
edit on 19-11-2021 by TomCollin because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 19 2021 @ 09:48 AM
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a reply to: Edumakated

Would the people that excel beyond the normal standards not simply be promoted to higher positions or go on to seek better employment options?

I suppose it depends on the type of job and position to some extent.

Where I'm from the Trade Unions gave the working class people a voice to a certain extent.

At least that's how it was in the past, not so sure about this day of age if im honest.



posted on Nov, 19 2021 @ 09:54 AM
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originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Edumakated

Would the people that excel beyond the normal standards not simply be promoted to higher positions or go on to seek better employment options?

I suppose it depends on the type of job and position to some extent.

Where I'm from the Trade Unions gave the working class people a voice to a certain extent.

At least that's how it was in the past, not so sure about this day of age if im honest.


Most unions promote based on tenure, not performance. So even if you are a high performer, you may not get a chance to move up if there are other people who have seniority based on time on job.

This is why I said unions basically lower the bar for everyone. The slackers get elevated to the mean while the high performers are brought down to the mean. Most high performers probably just leave to find work elsewhere.



posted on Nov, 19 2021 @ 09:55 AM
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a reply to: andy06shake

Getting more for me now isn't always better long-term. If more for me now stifles my prospects of advancement through arcane seniority rules or drives the business into bankruptcy, then I end up hurt in the end, possibly worse than short-term gains can make up for. I might even be like those teachers of the year who end up fired because, despite their apparent excellence, they lacked union tenure and ... rules are rules.



posted on Nov, 19 2021 @ 10:14 AM
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a reply to: Edumakated

Most high performers have the university degrees and skill sets that allow them to seek better employment or negotiate a better deal.

I suggest unions create a measure of equality for the workforce they represent as opposed to lowering the bar.

As to slackers well if you are not pulling your weight at the job you are doing then your fellow workers are apt to chime in on that score, easy enough to spot those types.



posted on Nov, 19 2021 @ 10:19 AM
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a reply to: ketsuko

I would rather have people behind me fighting on my side championing my cause and than standing alone especially against someone or something that's holding all the cards.

Rules are rules, generally there for good reason, the first one being, last in first out, when has the world spun any other way?
edit on 19-11-2021 by andy06shake because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 19 2021 @ 10:21 AM
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originally posted by: ketsuko
I agree the problem comes in when unions become larger than the entities they represent against. You can't tell me that it's a good idea to allow one or two organizations to represent all teachers in the nation, for example, or actually allow government employees at all to unionize - the taxpayers end up entirely cut out of the loop.


There should be zero public sector unions, period.



posted on Nov, 19 2021 @ 10:53 AM
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a reply to: andy06shake

Is that why the guy caught sleeping on the job couldn't be fired ... not even by the company president who caught him? Btw, he was a known slacker by everyone, union and company alike, but rules are rules, so he can stay and sleep and get paid for it and get his annual raise and apply for higher paying jobs through seniority that he can then sleep through because of them ...



posted on Nov, 19 2021 @ 01:19 PM
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a reply to: ketsuko

I don't know who this guy is that you are referring to, what he does, where he is, or the story behind the incident.

However people should not be paid to sleep on the job short of him being a mattress tester i suppose.


I still don't think Unions are a bad idea per-say considering i think its important that organizations exist that advocate for the rights of employees.

Far as i can establish championing economic justice in the workplace for the common working Man is not a bad thing.

End of the day there are pros and cons in joining any organisation but the choice should be there for those that choose to do so.



posted on Nov, 19 2021 @ 11:35 PM
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originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: ketsuko

Thing is union members are apt to get higher pay rates than non-members.

They are also likely to get better sickness benefits, pension benefits, more paid holiday's

Also greater control over things like there shift times and working hours in general.

The reason being workers join together and unite to negotiate their pay and conditions with their companies rather than leaving that up to managers and the like.

www.epi.org... -and-wages/

I guess there are good and bad people in all walks of like ketsuko unions and there members being no different.


Im sorry, but this is propaganda.

Union wages are the same as non union wages.

If they werent, no non union shop would have any employees.

Benefits?

The only benefit youre not getting in a non union shop is a pension.

Which ends up being paid for by the government because theyre a scam. Theyre a ponzi scheme....

Unions protect the lazy and stupid, and limit the willing and able. In a non union shop, if you know your #, you get promoted. Doesnt matter how much time in service you got. In a union, youre an apprentice even if youre better than the dude training you.

A union exploits the worker. Plain and simple. How much does your union rep make? And where do your union dues go?

You want to join a union, go right ahead.

But you dont get to force your employer to support your union. You entered an agreement with your employer when you accepted their offer for employment.

You dont like it, you can go find another job.
edit on 20-11-2021 by rounda because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 20 2021 @ 07:17 AM
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a reply to: rounda

Im semiretired now rounda, ive not been in or required a union since the late 90s.

Unions are a choice rounda one that should be available for those that choose to join.

As to employer agreements/contracts, well that works both ways.

And as to people who don't like there job being able to go find another, well some poor sods dont have the luxury of being able to pick and choose their employers down to a multitude of different reasons.
edit on 20-11-2021 by andy06shake because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 20 2021 @ 12:01 PM
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originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: rounda

And as to people who don't like there job being able to go find another, well some poor sods dont have the luxury of being able to pick and choose their employers down to a multitude of different reasons.


Name one.

If there truly were "a multitude" of reasons, i wouldnt have to prompt you to provide one.
edit on 20-11-2021 by rounda because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 20 2021 @ 12:03 PM
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a reply to: rounda

One?

Away you go look at history, and find the multitudes.



posted on Nov, 20 2021 @ 12:14 PM
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originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: rounda

One?

Away you go look at history, and find the multitudes.



History, huh?

How about today, 2021.

You made the claim, not me. Im not going to do your research for you.

Its weird that theres so many reasons, and you cant provide a single one.
edit on 20-11-2021 by rounda because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 20 2021 @ 02:11 PM
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originally posted by: Jdubious
John should go hang with Piers Morgan and do a show about UK politics. Bond made people with British accents sound smart, J. Oliver makes British people sound moronic.



Are you serious? Piers Morgan is a knee jerk snowflake who gets upset about the smallest things, particularly when someone disagrees with him. He is in too much of a rush to be noticed to think things through.

He did a show where he discussed UK politics, among other things, and left when the weatherman dared to challenge him on his opinions.



posted on Nov, 20 2021 @ 02:13 PM
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a reply to: rounda

I admire your forelock tugging attitude. When it comes to the welfare of the working man, employers can always be trusted more than an organisation of working men.



posted on Nov, 20 2021 @ 04:19 PM
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originally posted by: Whodathunkdatcheese
a reply to: rounda

I admire your forelock tugging attitude. When it comes to the welfare of the working man, employers can always be trusted more than an organisation of working men.


Yep, you can always trust an organization that tries to manipulate the market by keeping people out of work half the year. You know, like every construction union in the US.

Hell, they literally teach you how to file your unemployment claims when youre signing your paperwork to join the union.

As opposed to the non union shop who is trying to find as much work as possible to keep their people employed.

Again... how much does your union leadership get paid, and where does the rest of your dues go?

So weird that labor union control was so important to the mafia. And wouldnt you know it, theyre still bringing charges up on union leaders for things like extortion and bid fixing.
edit on 20-11-2021 by rounda because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 23 2021 @ 08:25 AM
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a reply to: rounda

This thread reads like the propaganda clip from the video, it's so weird that actual comments on the topic are an exception to the norm.

Aaanyhow. Why would anyone be surprised to find corrupted unions within our neoliberal, and increasingly fascist project? That's one of the reasons why workers started to organized on their own. And this weakening of unions in general would be directly related to the powers that mobilize strike breakers, too. A bigger picture emerges.
edit on 23-11-2021 by Spartakush because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 24 2021 @ 07:15 AM
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originally posted by: Spartakush
a reply to: rounda

This thread reads like the propaganda clip from the video, it's so weird that actual comments on the topic are an exception to the norm.

Aaanyhow. Why would anyone be surprised to find corrupted unions within our neoliberal, and increasingly fascist project? That's one of the reasons why workers started to organized on their own. And this weakening of unions in general would be directly related to the powers that mobilize strike breakers, too. A bigger picture emerges.


If workers spent half as much time trying to actually be good employees as they do bitching about what they think theyre entitled to, they wouldnt need to organize.

Its amazing. In my time in the workforce, ive managed teams as small as 4 and as large as 50. And the one thing ive noticed is that the people who can follow 3 simple rules are ALWAYS successful, and those who cant, arent.

1. Show up to work
2. Know your job
3. Do your job, even when nobody is watching

It really is that simple, and it really is mind blowing the lengths people go to avoid being successful.

Ive got a guy on my team right now. Always takes his lunch 10-15 minutes early, always the first to clock out, doesnt spend any time outside of work trying to get better, is the lowest rated person across 4 teams over multiple performance reviews...

I cant even give him basic tasks. Im not joking at all. I literally spent half my day today walking him through multiple precursors to a single basic task, and then eventually having to do half of it for him just so it would get done.

And hes been trained in the task, AND ive spent more time with him training in the same task 6 or 7 times.

Which means the tasks i need complete in order for the rest of my team to even begin their work has to happen in my off time... otherwise the deadline doesnt get met.

Why should an employer be obligated to keep someone like that on their payroll?

These fantasy worlds where the employer is the bad guy is exactly that... fantasy worlds. The simple fact of the matter is a good majority of the workforce are complete morons.
edit on 24-11-2021 by rounda because: (no reason given)




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