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Are viruses alive?

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posted on Oct, 12 2021 @ 07:52 AM
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First off, I'm so far out of my depth, I should never write this thread. But I'm not writing it in the sense that I think I'm right, I just want to get the thoughts flowing and some scientific process working. (that's what we used to do before the "science was settled".)

In a conversation with Phage, it was mentioned that some think viruses are NOT alive. Yet as far back as I can remember, people describing the Flu vaccine and other vaccines, (covid) make it a point to say that no LIVE virus is in the shot, so you can't get the flu from the shot. Seems odd they would say that, if a virus wasn't alive to begin with. I mean, that kind of kills the whole point they were trying to convey. If the virus isn't alive, then why can't it be in the vaccine? But that may not even be a good quesiton.

In my search for an answer prior to writing this, I found:
microbiologysociety.org...
which says:

What does it mean to be ‘alive’? At a basic level, viruses are proteins and genetic material that survive and replicate within their environment, inside another life form. In the absence of their host, viruses are unable to replicate and many are unable to survive for long in the extracellular environment. Therefore, if they cannot survive independently, can they be defined as being ‘alive’?


now I bolded a word that stuck out at me. How can something be said to 'survive', if it's not alive to begin with? If it wasn't alive, it wouldn't have to "survive", it would just exist, or not exist. Unless my non educated self if just thinking all wrong. (entirely possible)

And in the end, this is all about the theory that Ivermectin could be used to treat Covid. that aspect of this discussion is better suited to other threads, but it is the driving force behind this one. I hope we can all learn something from this talk. thanks in advance.



posted on Oct, 12 2021 @ 08:05 AM
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originally posted by: network dude
First off, I'm so far out of my depth, I should never write this thread. But I'm not writing it in the sense that I think I'm right, I just want to get the thoughts flowing and some scientific process working. (that's what we used to do before the "science was settled".)

In a conversation with Phage, it was mentioned that some think viruses are NOT alive. Yet as far back as I can remember, people describing the Flu vaccine and other vaccines, (covid) make it a point to say that no LIVE virus is in the shot, so you can't get the flu from the shot. Seems odd they would say that, if a virus wasn't alive to begin with. I mean, that kind of kills the whole point they were trying to convey. If the virus isn't alive, then why can't it be in the vaccine? But that may not even be a good quesiton.

In my search for an answer prior to writing this, I found:
microbiologysociety.org...
which says:

What does it mean to be ‘alive’? At a basic level, viruses are proteins and genetic material that survive and replicate within their environment, inside another life form. In the absence of their host, viruses are unable to replicate and many are unable to survive for long in the extracellular environment. Therefore, if they cannot survive independently, can they be defined as being ‘alive’?


now I bolded a word that stuck out at me. How can something be said to 'survive', if it's not alive to begin with? If it wasn't alive, it wouldn't have to "survive", it would just exist, or not exist. Unless my non educated self if just thinking all wrong. (entirely possible)

And in the end, this is all about the theory that Ivermectin could be used to treat Covid. that aspect of this discussion is better suited to other threads, but it is the driving force behind this one. I hope we can all learn something from this talk. thanks in advance.


They consume and they reproduce. Unless you want to get into symantic arguments that's enough for me.



posted on Oct, 12 2021 @ 08:12 AM
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a reply to: network dude

If something is born...birthed...and can replicate?

Life



posted on Oct, 12 2021 @ 08:34 AM
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It's no different than saying a fire will survive so long as the conditions are right. Viruses aren't living things, but they still do things and will cease to be able to do those things under certain conditions, the same way a fire will cease to burn under certain conditions.



posted on Oct, 12 2021 @ 08:39 AM
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a reply to: network dude

Technically NO!, a cell eats for lack of a better word, be that a bacteria or a cell in your body and it divides so creating two cells out of one if the right conditions are met and it is healthy.

A Virus on the other hand can NOT self replicate, it can only replicate by infecting a cell and getting the cell to replicate it by hijacking - taking over - infecting the cell.

This webpage will explain it quickly and simply in terms anyone can understand.
www.cliffsnotes.com...

There will always be debate about what constitutes life but self replication is an accepted standard, virus can NOT - SELF - Replicate they get living cells to do that for them.

edit on 12-10-2021 by LABTECH767 because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 12 2021 @ 09:02 AM
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a reply to: network dude



inside another life form. In the absence of their host


A parasite cannot survive without a host; to eat and then express it's waste which births new parasite offspring in the body of it's host. Infection.

That's how I read it...no host no disease.

Killing the host instead of the disease seems likely the intended outcome.

There's 8 distinguished blood types....o neg is least susceptible to infection, but jab jab jab targets the host, not the disease.



January 13, 2021

Type O and Rh-Negative Blood Type Protective Against COVID-19

Estie Mermelstein, MSN, FNP-BC



o neg

don't jab o neg




Vaccine-induced enhancement of viral infections

W. Huisman, B.E.E. Martina, [...], and A.D.M.E. Osterhaus






🙏❤🇺🇸💯



posted on Oct, 12 2021 @ 09:36 AM
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a reply to: LABTECH767

thanks for a great answer. Now, can a virus die?



posted on Oct, 12 2021 @ 09:39 AM
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originally posted by: trollz
It's no different than saying a fire will survive so long as the conditions are right. Viruses aren't living things, but they still do things and will cease to be able to do those things under certain conditions, the same way a fire will cease to burn under certain conditions.


Fire is a great example of the question, what reproduces, but isn't alive. But in the sense of birth and death, fire can be born, by use of a lighter or match. Fire can live, fire must breath to stay alive and fire can die. So now we are into semantics of "what constitutes a living thing".

Thanks all for the answers. I'm already learning stuff.



posted on Oct, 12 2021 @ 09:47 AM
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I think it falls into a grey area in terms of defining life.

However, I look at it this way. If we discovered a virus in space... would we say we discovered an alien life form?



posted on Oct, 12 2021 @ 09:48 AM
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WHAT MAKES SOMETHING LIVING?
All living organisms share several key characteristics or functions: order, sensitivity or response to the environment, reproduction, adaptation, growth and development, homeostasis, energy processing, and evolution. When viewed together, these characteristics serve to define life. Different sources may use slightly different terms to describe these characteristics, but the basic ideas are always present.

openoregon.pressbooks.pub...

A virus has order. It's a cell structure that can be identified, and apparently reproduced in a lab
A virus responds to the environment. Which I believe is why we have a "Flu season".
A virus reproduces. A virus infects cells, and tries to propagate by seeking to infect other hosts.
Adaptation, growth and development, all phases of the beginning (alpha variant) and seeing the proliferation of the Delta variant, and knowing the life of a virus is mutation, and usually a weakening of the effectiveness.

But by that same token, fire also fits with most or all of that. And fire in the sense of what I understand, is not alive.



posted on Oct, 12 2021 @ 09:50 AM
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originally posted by: Edumakated
I think it falls into a grey area in terms of defining life.

However, I look at it this way. If we discovered a virus in space... would we say we discovered an alien life form?


it would be hard not to. If it came from off world, then it's alien by definition, but we are left with is it a life form? And if it's not, what is it?



posted on Oct, 12 2021 @ 09:55 AM
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a reply to: network dude

I would say yes, but not as a sentient being.
Do they think about what they are doing or just do it?



posted on Oct, 12 2021 @ 09:59 AM
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a reply to: TomCollin

they seem to have a goal from inception, to survive and expand. Like it's embedded in the genetic makup.
I suppose it's like how sea turtles know to go towards the water without being told or shown. But then, Sea turtles are alive.



posted on Oct, 12 2021 @ 10:12 AM
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a reply to: network dude

I see animals as being sentient, they think and are self aware. Take cats, they'll let you know they are hungry, but put something that they don't like, they won't eat it and whine until you put something down they like or go hungry. They also learn where danger is and if they don't get killed will avoid it next time.

I don't really agree that viruses are, but here are a couple links that say they are or might be.

Virus Intelligence: Are Viruses Alive and Sentient?

Are Viruses Alive?


edit on 12-10-2021 by TomCollin because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 12 2021 @ 10:14 AM
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originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: Edumakated
I think it falls into a grey area in terms of defining life.

However, I look at it this way. If we discovered a virus in space... would we say we discovered an alien life form?


it would be hard not to. If it came from off world, then it's alien by definition, but we are left with is it a life form? And if it's not, what is it?



What is It?

Another example of how we are locked into a world that we understand based on what we already know.

Is it possible to even process or to even understand something that is completely foreign to us?

I deal with this question often, because of a visual impairment I have lived with for a long time.

I tend to see things inverted, the free space, instead of the whole of an object. This does not present a problem if I am familiar with the object, if it is foreign to me, I am confused by it, and it takes a quick second or two for my brain to come up with a match.

Problem is that the brain will always come up with a match with something I have already seen or already know.

How does our mind process the unseen and the unkown? Can it process the unseen or the unknow?

Some say, "There are things we were never meant to know or understand."

Maybe it is not that we were not meant to, maybe we just are not built that way.



posted on Oct, 12 2021 @ 11:10 AM
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I think I always took the meaning of "Live" in that context to be like live wire rather than actualy alive.

Not sure that makes any difference.



posted on Oct, 12 2021 @ 12:55 PM
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a reply to: network dude

I believe the term you are looking for is intracellular parasite.



posted on Oct, 12 2021 @ 12:58 PM
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originally posted by: TzarChasm
a reply to: network dude

I believe the term you are looking for is intracellular parasite.


That was kind of the direction I went with at the beginning of this line of questioning. It had to do with the drug Ivermectin, being a drug to treat parasites and all. And Covid does seem to fit the definition of a parasite. So taking a drug that fights parasites, seemed like a logical thing to at least try. But again, I'm asking, not telling. I don't know enough to say anything for sure.



posted on Oct, 12 2021 @ 01:56 PM
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a reply to: network dude




In a conversation with Phage, it was mentioned that some think viruses are NOT alive.


You should ask Phage if a phage is alive


I knew a guy once who studied phages. What he told me is: no, they didn't think so

Pollen is alive


now I bolded a word that stuck out at me. How can something be said to 'survive', if it's not alive to begin with? If it wasn't alive, it wouldn't have to "survive", it would just exist, or not exist. Unless my non educated self if just thinking all wrong. (entirely possible)


So, you're using semantics to prove covid is a parasite?

This is seriously fascinating. You're using science to prove how much you don't believe in science
edit on 10/12/2021 by Spiramirabilis because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 12 2021 @ 02:33 PM
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originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: TzarChasm
a reply to: network dude

I believe the term you are looking for is intracellular parasite.


That was kind of the direction I went with at the beginning of this line of questioning. It had to do with the drug Ivermectin, being a drug to treat parasites and all. And Covid does seem to fit the definition of a parasite. So taking a drug that fights parasites, seemed like a logical thing to at least try. But again, I'm asking, not telling. I don't know enough to say anything for sure.


It is a logical method to at least try. But big pharma doesn't like it when their customers find an alternative medicine that undermines their industry.




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