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Dont Take the Moderates Seriously

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posted on Oct, 11 2018 @ 08:03 PM
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originally posted by: Blaine91555

originally posted by: NiNjABackflip
But the parties will be defined by those who participate in them, not by those who refuse to. It's sort of self-defeating in my eyes.


Now that's a point I can agree with in part. The problem being that constituents have no real control anymore, hence the need for Independents willing to cross party lines based on issues. Change is no longer possible from within, you have to be outside of a party to force them to change to get your vote.

I've watched the parties flip flop over the years, but not because it's the right thing, it's because of vote pandering.

Partisan votes are meaningless since they are predictable and reliable. They want my vote they need to prove to me they are capable of leading and part of that is the ability to work towards compromise for the greater good. Something entirely lacking in the last election.

Look at which Presidents made change for the good. JFK, Reagan and Bill Clinton to a lesser degree. They did it by compromising and remaining moderate.


I agree with much of what you said. Very fair.

But Clinton engaged in what Dick Morris called Political Triangulation, which I suppose is a form of moderation, but is really a way to syphon votes from the other parties. It’s a political ploy. I think third-way politics is dangerous, but that’s an argument for another time. I admit I don’t know much about it.

Again, I can hardly disagree with what you said, and thank you for the fair response.
edit on 11-10-2018 by NiNjABackflip because: (no reason given)




posted on Oct, 11 2018 @ 08:14 PM
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a reply to: NiNjABackflip

I don't think we are really that far apart. Our goal is similar, we differ on methods and perhaps differ more than a little on how you view moderates historically.

Thanks for the very interesting conversation.




posted on Oct, 11 2018 @ 08:20 PM
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originally posted by: Blaine91555
a reply to: NiNjABackflip

I don't think we are really that far apart. Our goal is similar, we differ on methods and perhaps differ more than a little on how you view moderates historically.

Thanks for the very interesting conversation.



Thank you for challenging my views. Your reasonable points make it easier to consider your yours. They might even help me to alter my own...might.



posted on Oct, 11 2018 @ 10:08 PM
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a reply to: NiNjABackflip

I once heard O'Reilly say he has liberals on his shows all the time. Yeah, when you are that far to the right everyone else is a bleeding heart liberal.

A Republican from New Jersey is further to the left than a Democrat from Texas. From my perspective, the Democrat party is completely owned and run by Nixon type Republicans.



posted on Oct, 11 2018 @ 11:15 PM
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originally posted by: dfnj2015
a reply to: NiNjABackflip

I once heard O'Reilly say he has liberals on his shows all the time. Yeah, when you are that far to the right everyone else is a bleeding heart liberal.

A Republican from New Jersey is further to the left than a Democrat from Texas. From my perspective, the Democrat party is completely owned and run by Nixon type Republicans.


The democratic socialist wing of that party is gaining ground. If there are any freedom-loving Democrats still around, they should be worried.



posted on Oct, 11 2018 @ 11:43 PM
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a reply to: JDmOKI

Yes and it's the only world. There is truth and there is falsehood. There is no your truth and my truth. That is the lie people tell themselves when they know they're wrong and don't want to admit it

Jaden



posted on Oct, 11 2018 @ 11:45 PM
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a reply to: dfnj2015

What in the #ed up fake world do you live in. That is some of the silliest # I've ever heard. Lol

Jaden



posted on Oct, 12 2018 @ 01:43 AM
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a reply to: NiNjABackflip


Speaking only for myself as a moderate, I don't banish myself from the system. I read and form opinions and vote based on them. I participate, which is a lot more than some can say. My future is involved; I try to make an informed decision
, and sometimes I find out I was wrong. Voted for Obama, I was wrong. Voted for Trump, so far so good. I was going to vote for Sanders honestly, but then Hillary stole that away.



posted on Oct, 12 2018 @ 06:46 AM
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a reply to: Blaine91555

Well said.


As to ATS it seems that most here are in disagreement with the OP and DO take moderates seriously. Again...



posted on Oct, 12 2018 @ 09:10 AM
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originally posted by: intrepid
a reply to: Blaine91555

Well said.


As to ATS it seems that most here are in disagreement with the OP and DO take moderates seriously. Again...




Most people once thought the earth was flat. Running to fallacies....again.



posted on Oct, 12 2018 @ 09:12 AM
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originally posted by: NiNjABackflip

originally posted by: intrepid
a reply to: Blaine91555

Well said.


As to ATS it seems that most here are in disagreement with the OP and DO take moderates seriously. Again...




Most people once thought the earth was flat. Running to fallacies....again.


Nope. Going with facts. 4 flags. Seems like there's little support for your position.



posted on Oct, 12 2018 @ 09:15 AM
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originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: NiNjABackflip

originally posted by: intrepid
a reply to: Blaine91555

Well said.


As to ATS it seems that most here are in disagreement with the OP and DO take moderates seriously. Again...




Most people once thought the earth was flat. Running to fallacies....again.


Nope. Going with facts. 4 flags. Seems like there's little support for your position.


You care about flags more than I do. Just going with facts.



posted on Oct, 12 2018 @ 09:16 AM
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originally posted by: NiNjABackflip

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: NiNjABackflip

originally posted by: intrepid
a reply to: Blaine91555

Well said.


As to ATS it seems that most here are in disagreement with the OP and DO take moderates seriously. Again...




Most people once thought the earth was flat. Running to fallacies....again.


Nope. Going with facts. 4 flags. Seems like there's little support for your position.


You care about flags more than I do. Just going with facts.


In this case it's telling.



posted on Oct, 12 2018 @ 09:23 AM
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originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: NiNjABackflip

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: NiNjABackflip

originally posted by: intrepid
a reply to: Blaine91555

Well said.


As to ATS it seems that most here are in disagreement with the OP and DO take moderates seriously. Again...




Most people once thought the earth was flat. Running to fallacies....again.


Nope. Going with facts. 4 flags. Seems like there's little support for your position.


You care about flags more than I do. Just going with facts.


In this case it's telling.


And what’s that?



posted on Oct, 12 2018 @ 09:24 AM
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originally posted by: NiNjABackflip

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: NiNjABackflip

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: NiNjABackflip

originally posted by: intrepid
a reply to: Blaine91555

Well said.


As to ATS it seems that most here are in disagreement with the OP and DO take moderates seriously. Again...




Most people once thought the earth was flat. Running to fallacies....again.


Nope. Going with facts. 4 flags. Seems like there's little support for your position.


You care about flags more than I do. Just going with facts.


In this case it's telling.


And what’s that?


Answer. Try to keep up.



posted on Oct, 12 2018 @ 09:27 AM
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originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: NiNjABackflip

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: NiNjABackflip

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: NiNjABackflip

originally posted by: intrepid
a reply to: Blaine91555

Well said.


As to ATS it seems that most here are in disagreement with the OP and DO take moderates seriously. Again...




Most people once thought the earth was flat. Running to fallacies....again.


Nope. Going with facts. 4 flags. Seems like there's little support for your position.


You care about flags more than I do. Just going with facts.


In this case it's telling.


And what’s that?


Answer. Try to keep up.


Oh, the lack of flags prove how much people take moderates seriously. Science.



posted on Oct, 12 2018 @ 11:13 AM
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originally posted by: NiNjABackflip

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: NiNjABackflip

originally posted by: intrepid
a reply to: Blaine91555

Well said.


As to ATS it seems that most here are in disagreement with the OP and DO take moderates seriously. Again...




Most people once thought the earth was flat. Running to fallacies....again.


Nope. Going with facts. 4 flags. Seems like there's little support for your position.


You care about flags more than I do. Just going with facts.


Fact is there are more independents/moderates than either party.

Another fact, we decide which way an election turns.

ETA: Instead of bashing moderates, you may want to do a better job of presenting your ideology.... It may help since their are more democrats than republicans, so to turn things in your favor, you have to present your ideas rather than force them.

edit on 12-10-2018 by CriticalStinker because: (no reason given)



posted on Oct, 12 2018 @ 11:34 AM
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a reply to: CriticalStinker




Fact is there are more independents/moderates than either party.

Another fact, we decide which way an election turns.

ETA: Instead of bashing moderates, you may want to do a better job of presenting your ideology.... It may help since their are more democrats than republicans, so to turn things in your favor, you have to present your ideas rather than force them.


That's fine with me. I'm not a fan of groups. But I find it ironic that those who claim not to be beholden to any party act in the same manner as a party.

If moderates didn't stifle the debate while at the same time presenting themselves as the reasonable voice I would have no problem. A little criticism hurts, I know, but I think it offers an opportunity for change.



posted on Oct, 12 2018 @ 11:39 AM
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a reply to: NiNjABackflip

You responded to moderates as a group. So I'm still surprised you are being responded to them as such.

I can speak for myself and say that I routinely pick different stances than other moderates or people with a party affiliation.

I don't mind the criticism, in this case it's comical that someone has a problem with someone thinking for themselves and not adopting an extreme (enough) platform for you.

While both sides will sleight moderates from time to time (usually when they blame losing an election on them), most people don't mind moderates.



posted on Oct, 12 2018 @ 11:44 AM
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originally posted by: CriticalStinker
a reply to: NiNjABackflip

You responded to moderates as a group. So I'm still surprised you are being responded to them as such.

I can speak for myself and say that I routinely pick different stances than other moderates or people with a party affiliation.

I don't mind the criticism, in this case it's comical that someone has a problem with someone thinking for themselves and not adopting an extreme (enough) platform for you.

While both sides will sleight moderates from time to time (usually when they blame losing an election on them), most people don't mind moderates.


Have I said I have a problem with thinking for themselves and not adopting an extreme platform? No.

Again, you skirt my criticisms, proving to me that you actually do mind them, or cannot address them, one or the other.



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