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18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ took place in this way. When his mother Mary had been betrothed to Joseph, before they came together she was found to be with child from the Holy Spirit.
19 And her husband Joseph, being a just man and unwilling to put her to shame, resolved to divorce her quietly.
20 But as he considered these things, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, "Joseph, son of David, do not fear to take Mary as your wife, for that which is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit.
21 She will bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus, for he will save his people from their sins."
27 to a virgin betrothed to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David. And the virgin's name was Mary.
28 And he came to her and said, "Greetings, O favored one, the Lord is with you!"
31 And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus.
34 And Mary said to the angel, "How will this be, since I am a virgin?"
35 And the angel answered her, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be called holy, the Son of God.
Talmud writings tell....
When her pregnancy became known, the rabbis declared her a sotah, an adulteress woman. Her fiancé, Joseph, sought to end his betrothal to her and refused to marry her. An angel, Gabriel, is said to have appeared to him, convincing him to marry Mary for the child to be born would become a savior to his people. When the baby Jesus (Yeshu) was born, the rabbis declared him a mamzer, a bastard child born of an illicit relationship. The Talmud makes references to him as Yeshu ben Pantera (Jesus, son of Pantera) and declared officially that Pantera was indeed the biological father. In the Jerusalem Talmud, Jesus is referred to as “ha hu”…that one. The Babylonian Talmud refers only to Yeshu ben Pantera.
Perhaps Timothy knew of the writings of Matthew and Luke....
As I urged you when I was going to Macedonia, remain at Ephesus so that you may charge certain persons not to teach any different doctrine, 4 nor to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies, which promote speculations rather than the stewardship[a] from God that is by faith.
originally posted by: pheonix358
a reply to: glend
So, in the bible, one account says the Angel appeared to Mary ... and the other account ... says the Angle appeared to Joseph.
Perhaps it just shows that even the earliest records we have show a church besotted by sex. Well, they haven't changed much have they?
Early Jewish sources make Jesus the son of Panthera, a Roman soldier. "Rabbi Shiemon ben Azzai has said: I found in Jerusalem a book of genealogies; therein was written that Such-an-one [a common Jewish euphemism for Jesus] is the bastard son of an adultress." (Mishnah). If true, this must have been before the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 CE, so preserves a very early tradition.
The story was also reported the Greek philosopher Celsus (c. 178): "[Celsus] accuses [Jesus] of having 'invented his birth from a virgin,' and upbraids him with being 'born in a certain Jewish village, of a poor woman of the country, who gained her subsistence by spinning, and who was turned out of doors by her husband, a carpenter by trade, because she was convicted of adultery; that after being driven away by her husband, and wandering about for a time, she disgracefully gave birth to Jesus, an illegitimate child, who having hired himself out as a servant in Egypt on account of his poverty, and having there acquired some miraculous powers, on which the Egyptians greatly pride themselves, returned to his own county, highly elated on account of them, and by means of these proclaimed himself a god.'" (Origen Adamantius (c. 185-254), Contra Celsus, 1.28). "But let us return to where the Jew is introduced, speaking of the mother of Jesus, and saying that 'when she was pregnant she was turned out of doors by the carpenter to whom she had been betrothed, as having been guilty of adultery, and that she bore a child to a certain soldier named Panthera' . . ." (Origen, 1.32; see also 1.69). Some Christian apologists note that Panthera could have been a satirical pun on the Greek word parthenos (virgin).
One of the heresies St. Epiphanius of Salamis (315-403) attempted to refute was the charge that "Jesus was the son of a certain Julius whose surname was Panthera."
A tombstone found in Bingerbrück, Germany in 1859 bears the name Tiberius Julius Abdes Pantera, a Roman soldier from Sidon who served in the Cohors I Sagittariorum. Craveri has suggested that this Panthera was Jesus' father (Craveri). The full inscription reads, "Tiberius Julius Abdes Pantera from Sidon, aged 62 years served 40 years, former standard bearer (?) of the first cohort of archers lies here." (CIL 13:7514). Pantera, which is this man's given name, was a common Syrian name, meaning panther.
Later Jewish tradition is confused about the details: "But is it not (the case that) Ben Stada brought magic marks from Egypt in the scratches on his flesh?" They said to him, "He was a madman and you cannot base laws on (the actions of) madmen." Was he then the son of Stada? Surely he was the son of Pandira? Rabbai Hisda [a third-century Babylonian] said, "The husband was Stada, the paramour was Pandira." (But was not) the husband Pappos ben Yehuda? His mother was Stada. (But was not) his mother Miriam (Mary) the hairdresser? (Yes, but she was nicknamed Stada) -- Pumbeditha, "s'tat da [this one has turned away from, was unfaithful to] her husband." (Tosefta, Shabbat 11.15, quoted by Smith, 47). This passage shows confusion with another Jesus, Jesus ben Stada, a sorcerer who was condemned by a rabbinic court in Lydda, and stoned (Tosefta, Sanhedrin 10:11, cited by Smith, 47). Note that the passage calls Jesus' mother a hairdresser, an occupation assigned in Christian tradition to St. Mary Magdalene. The word means braider. Another translation often given is spinner.
originally posted by: SocratesJohnson
As one of my Jewish high school friends, so eloquently put this topic:
‘Why didn’t Joseph tap that sooner’
No Christian at the lunch table could response with anymore than mumbling.
Perhaps the holy ghost worked though Tiberius Pantera so Gospel of Mathew not untruthful. Your thoughts?
And with us, indeed, who have had handed down from our forefathers the worship of the God who made all things, and also the mystery of the books which are able to deceive, he will not prevail; but with those from amongst the Gentiles who have the polytheistic fancy bred in them, and who know not the falsehoods of the Scriptures, he will prevail much.
The story that Jesus was the son of a man named Pantera is referred to in the Talmud, in which Jesus is widely understood to be the figure referred to as "Ben Stada":