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The first world war 7000 years ago?

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posted on Jun, 17 2017 @ 12:27 PM
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originally posted by: anonentity
a reply to: Byrd


If you cant accept that the same signature exist on sophisticated ancient stone construction. Cocaine and Nicotine found in mummies, along with boomerangs and marsupial bones, found in Egypt hold no significance, because it goes against historical dogma and offends the accepted Paradigm, to think this was even possible when we at the wave front of history should be the most advanced that the Earth has produced, when with each passing decade, the evidence of our practical devolvement becomes more glaringly obvious as the generations pass. All I can suggest is for you to study Polygonal stonework and then tell me how they did it?


The nicotine and coc aine have been thoroughly de bunked many times over, and for a variety of reasons.
As far as marsupials in anceint egypt, the only references I found eventually lead back to a YEC forum, and are expounded upon by one Mr. Ham, of Noah's ark park infamy.
Polygonal stone work is a natural engineering development to minimize the collpase of wall during earthquakes. You only find that type of monumental stone work where there are regualr earthquakes, i.e., the Agean, the Med, Certain parts of the anatolian and levantine highlands and of course the Andes.
ANd when you look closely at the progression of masonry techniques, in these eaerth quake prone areas, you will find that "polygonal" masonry appears after large earthquakes destroy a city/town or fortress.
This is well illustrated at Mycenae(Greece cir. 1600bc) and in Peru/Bolivia(1000ad), where you have standard masonry before a major earthquake event then a transition to mega blocks afterward.
So, where did that knowledge hide for 2600 years between uses?




posted on Jun, 17 2017 @ 06:59 PM
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a reply to: punkinworks10


Where has Cocaine and Nicotine been debunked? A reputable Polish scientist living in England proved beyond doubt it was the case.



posted on Jun, 18 2017 @ 01:32 PM
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originally posted by: anonentity
a reply to: punkinworks10


Where has Cocaine and Nicotine been debunked? A reputable Polish scientist living in England proved beyond doubt it was the case.



Then it should be a simple matter to provide a citation that links to a paper or st least the identity of this "reputable polish scientist living in England". Could you be any more ambiguous?



posted on Jun, 18 2017 @ 05:29 PM
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a reply to: peter vlar


You said it had been debunked, then tell me where?



posted on Jun, 18 2017 @ 06:49 PM
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originally posted by: anonentity
a reply to: peter vlar


You said it had been debunked, then tell me where?


Here's the "Straight Dope" article on it.
ATS thread on it



posted on Jun, 18 2017 @ 09:16 PM
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a reply to: Byrd


The tests she carried out are pretty bullet proof.



posted on Jun, 19 2017 @ 10:56 AM
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originally posted by: anonentity
a reply to: Byrd
The tests she carried out are pretty bullet proof.


Actually, they aren't.

Please don't assume that people making use of videos have any knowledge of chemistry, physics, anatomy, physiology, or history.

This is an "OMG! WE MUST SAVE THE SERIES BECAUSE IT'S BRINGING US MONEY!!!" production.

There's a lot of that out there.

Mummy studies are a continuous science and have been going on for well over 200 years and on mummies all over the world and of many different ages. Chemical and drug analysis is done frequently to discover causes of death (and gender.) There has been no confirmation of the initial finding and no subsequent research (by researchers both for and against the idea) has turned up anything to support their conclusions.


edit on 19-6-2017 by Byrd because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 19 2017 @ 11:54 AM
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originally posted by: Harte

The passage isn't there, as I explained.

There was once a poster here I held in high esteem named Donner. Donner posted about this - and linked to the section you're interested in - in this post link

Jason Colavito lays out the history of this bull crap claim quite well in one of his blog entries - "The Case of the False Quotes - How Ancient Astronaut Theorists Faked a Hindu Nuclear Explosion." Link


It's convenient to have this reference at hand for future discussions when we're again dealing with quotes like "Hair and nails fell out" and "all foodstuffs were infected".

I remember it gave me quite a headache back then when I searched for the phrase in various original texts.

Thanks again for digging it up!



posted on Jun, 19 2017 @ 12:58 PM
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originally posted by: anonentity
a reply to: peter vlar


You said it had been debunked, then tell me where?



So not only are you incapable of supporting your own position by providing an appropriate citation or even coming
Up with the name of some mystery Polish scientist who works in an unknown field ( because the information you claim doesn't actually exist) but You're really going to claim that I made a statement that I didn't? You really have zero credibility at this point.


For the record what I said was-

Then it should be a simple matter to provide a citation that links to a paper or st least the identity of this "reputable polish scientist living in England". Could you be any more ambiguous?


so if you want to stick to facts and answer my question, here it is once again... do you have a citation supporting your statements on coca and nicotine in Egyptian mummies, or even the name of your magical mystery scientist? These are YOUR claims. Not mine. The onus lies with you to support your own statements. All I did was ask you a question. One out are incapable of answering apparently. Throw that in with your lie that I made claims I didn't and I think you can at least see why I find you're credibility to be highly questionable. I don't think you give a s# but I'm not the only one that notices that you make a lot Of ridiculous claims and fail to back them up in the threads you participated but by all means... carry on.
edit on 19-6-2017 by peter vlar because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 19 2017 @ 05:07 PM
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a reply to: anonentity

the fact that no subsequent research team has been allowed to sample said mummies, and no one has replicated the coc aine findings combine that with the fact that coc aine is only identifiable through metabolites, suggest that the results are not as iron clad as they are made out to be.
Liver, kidney disease and diabetes can and will cause false positives for coc aine. Cocaine metabolites are only found in a very specific region in the hair shaft and not in the folicle, so there would be no coc aine on the hair.

Now onto the coc aine itself, the only way the coc aine could have gotten into Henet Taui's(the mummified priestess) system would have been for her to have chewed actual coca leaves within 90 days of her death. Cocaine was not isolated as a dicreet compound until 1860, when industry was able to produce the highly volatile aromatic hydrocarbon based solvents used to refine coc aine.
The coca had to be brought from SA, as it is a pretty finicky plant when it comes to cultivation, it has pretty specific climate requirements to grow, and only in the 20th spread outside of its home range.
The closest place to egypt it would grow would be the Ethiopian highlands, or the highlands of the lakes region.
So, you are telling me that a group of egyptians, from 1000bc , mounted an expedition to the new world, that was large enough to allow them to, A) succesfully sail to south america and back(~5-10 years round trip).
B) also large enough to leave a group to protect the ships in harbor, as the rest of the group undertakes the several thousand mile hike, across the northern amazon, then across the andes to the coca using cultures, all the while avoiding the myriad of unfriendly tribes, kingdoms and empires along the way? And without spreading the old world diseases that would decimate the new world populations as european contact did?
C) And so these egyptians make this astounding journey, aquire two of the most addictive substances known to man, and there is absolutetly no reference to these plants in all of the egyptian literature, even though they wrote extensively about their pharmacopia.
And BTW the egyptians used two plants that naturally contain nicotine.

various plants other than tobacco are a source of nicotine and two of these, Withania somnifera and Apium graveolens, were known and used by ancient Egyptians


Nicotine tinctures were widely used as insecticides to keep the moths out of currated mummies.
I also dont believe modern people understand that for decades coc aine was perfectly legal, and was quite the fad in mid 19th cent Germany(where it was, again, isolated as a compound), litterally every one was doing it, infantry in the german army was issued coke as part of their daily ration. Coke flowed freely at society functions, like mummy un wrapping parties.

Instead of grasping at wholely unsupported straws for evidence of old world/new world contact, look to the very good epidemiological and circumstantial genetic evidence that some old world people made it to the new world, but they didnt hide treasure in the south west or mine copper in michigan, but were storm washed upon the eastern shores of NA and SA to never return, but left their traces in isolated native american populations, in the form of agean specific HLA's.

And BTW tabacco is a north american species, and is not found in the wild nor is it cultivated in the same zones as coca, so not only do they have to make this heroic journey across northern south america to get coca leaf, they would also have had to make a stop in central or north america.
So highly unlikely

And speaking of psycoactive naturals, everywhere you go on the planet, when a new psyco active is introduced, it us cultivated, or exploited.
Cannabis, tobacco, opium poppys, kaat, betel nut, wild hollyberry and datura all have histories of being introduced to new populations that immediately took up their cultivation or usage.

It is in that last paragraph that a real history mystery lies, namely how did a suite of New world plants and mythilogical motiffs end up spread from the western NA to polynesia(sweet potato, tobacco, bottle gourd, chilli peppers and 8 other new world plants, i have yet been able to find a concise list of online), Australia(tobacco, genetically most closely related to wild tobacco from california and arizona), Northern India( Datura usage among the Munda speakers, this datura is genetically most closley related to species found in utah and new mexico), the Munda also have a creation mythos derived from a native california mythos[earth diver], that is widespread in eurasia as well as north america.
Then there is the curious tale of the bottle gourd, who's oldest know usage was in NE venezuala@9000bc, and whose earliest known cultivation is in the ancestral homelands of the polynesia 8kya, then a cultivation event in africa 4kya, bottle gourds show up in egypt for the first time.
The "wild source population" bottle gourds from africa drifted across the atlantic intact from inland Zimbabwe to inland Venzualea, idea is such a crock(oops bottle gourd) of crap as to be unbelievable
. So a plant that is only found growing wild several hundred miles from the ocean, that does not posses the needed structural qualities to hold water, the skin is to thin to be water proof, some how made its way across the desert, then floated for the several months or years it takes for a random drift, when it could not float for long, washes up atlantic coast of south america to then make its way several hundred miles inland to upland nw venezuala, thats a pretty magical plant, that also time travels to be its own originator.



posted on Jun, 19 2017 @ 05:40 PM
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a reply to: punkinworks10


Oh shock horror, the Sweet potato is a native of South America , its found all over in Oceana of course to your way of thinking it doesn't. This linear thinking isn't very helpful. If I was an ancient Trader like a Phoenician, and had got some of the richest countries in the world, exchanging Gold and Silver for my goods, my trade routes would be a state secret. Simply a fact of Trade, if they were not I wouldn't be rich anymore.
You haven't got to look very far to see that Rome wanted in, and rather than let the Romans find their trade routes they would scuttle their ships. Then you lament that their is no historical record.The fact is that back then as today Drugs were worth more than their weight in Gold . Why do you think that when the Romans took Carthage they even salted the land so crops would no longer grow .It wouldn't be to destroy the competition would it? Then you conveniently ignore amphora constantly being dredged up in the Bay of Jars in South America. You and others are pushing # uphill. It's the same old story that Vikings did not get to America.
You are saying that an experienced Ancient Mariner who can sail from one end of the Med. to the other and back, would be frightened of the Big Ocean, that is ludicrous.
edit on 19-6-2017 by anonentity because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 19 2017 @ 07:58 PM
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a reply to: anonentity

Well,
Where shall i begin,
I think I will start here,


If I was an ancient Trader like a Phoenician, and had got some of the richest countries in the world, exchanging Gold and Silver for my goods, my trade routes would be a state secret. Simply a fact of Trade, if they were not I wouldn't be rich anymore.

If you were a Phonecian, your trade routes were not a secret, by any stretch as those routes were sailed by greeks, five hundred years earlier, and by the Minoans for more than two thousand years before.
And what do the romans have to do with this?, I did not ignore the probable amphorae in brazil, because it has nothing to do with the question at hand, Did the Ancient Egyptians import coc aine and tobacco to the old world?, not if there was any contact between the new and old worlds, and if you had carefully read my post, you will see that I do not find that unlikely. What is unlikely is that coc aine and tobacco made it to egypt, the main reason being tobacco is a weed, it grows wild here in central cal, always has, and everywhere it has been introduced it has stayed and become an important crop, because its addictive there is always market. So if tobacco did come from the new world, where did it go for 2500 years, before it shows up again.
And then to that trade thing, when ever two cultures make trade contacts it shows up in the archeological record, like how agean spondylus shows up in baltic sites, oh and baltic amber shows up in the agean.
But that trade was through middlemen, until the Minoans then Mycenaeans made it to scandanavia by boat, from the atlantic. And that contact shows up in the most interesting way, the elites in scandanavia, particularly the warrior class, start shaving and styling their hair in a mycenaean fashion with mycenaean razors and combs.

That last bit brings me back to spondylus, or the spiny oyster, its shell has been an important trade item for agean and med. people for more than 10k years, so important that spondylus supplies and trade routes were fought over.
You know who else traded in spondylus, native south americans, in fact one of the earlier coca using lowland people, traded spondylus for highland commodities, like coca.
You would think that enterprising mediteranian traders would have exploited that commodity , that they would have recognized, along with the copious gold,silver,emeralds, rubys, jade and saphires they would have found among the american cultures, just as the europeans did when they showed up, and made subsquent trips for those valuable commodities, you didnt have to compete for.

Again I believe you have mistaken my opinion on the subject. I feel it is possible that there was incidental contact in ancient times, but nothing that lead to active trade or intentional journeys.



posted on Jun, 19 2017 @ 09:53 PM
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originally posted by: punkinworks10
a reply to: anonentity

Well,
Where shall i begin,
I think I will start here,


If I was an ancient Trader like a Phoenician, and had got some of the richest countries in the world, exchanging Gold and Silver for my goods, my trade routes would be a state secret. Simply a fact of Trade, if they were not I wouldn't be rich anymore.

If you were a Phonecian, your trade routes were not a secret, by any stretch as those routes were sailed by greeks, five hundred years earlier, and by the Minoans for more than two thousand years before.


Quite correct... and in addition, they didn't bring back their goods for just a few people in all of Egypt. They traded with the known world of that time.


What is unlikely is that coc aine and tobacco made it to egypt, the main reason being tobacco is a weed, it grows wild here in central cal, always has, and everywhere it has been introduced it has stayed and become an important crop, because its addictive there is always market. So if tobacco did come from the new world, where did it go for 2500 years, before it shows up again.
And then to that trade thing, when ever two cultures make trade contacts it shows up in the archeological record, like how agean spondylus shows up in baltic sites, oh and baltic amber shows up in the agean.

And the ancient world is full of this kind of example. They've even done timelines of trade.




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